The following is an interview given by His Holiness Jayapataka swami on November 29 1986 in Italy.

Interview was given in Radio Krishna centrale.

Interviewer : Introduction in local language … Hare Krishna .. (speaking in local language ) .. You just came from India maharaj right ..

GM : correct.

Interviewer : correct.

GM : Hare krishna !!

Interviewer to an audience on the phone: Hare Krishna , Ricardo ... (speaking in Italian)

Interviewer(translating in English) : He offers you his obeisances.

(Audience on the phone asks questions in Italian)

GM : Hare Krishna.

Interviewer (translating in English) : So he has two questions for you. The first question is he got some very brief information from gurudev. .. from our former spiritual master about the coming of Jesus Christ from the bhavishya purana and gurudev just said that he was coming but he dint say how or you know, he didn't go into details. He just stopped there. So he wants to know if you know anything more about what's written in this purana about coming of Jesus Christ and the other question is about the murtis in the temple. He says in the bible there is no description about any form of God about the father, no form of the father is given in the bible but yet we have forms in the temple that we worship. So he wants to know something about this also you can give little explanation. These are the two questions.

GM : So regarding the first question about the position or the prediction in the vedas about lord Jesus Christ, Interviewer : When you want to stop, I translate.

GM : There is a part of one of the puranas vishnu purana is known as the bhavishya purana or the prediction about the future in the world. (The Interviewer translates)

GM : So in that part of the vedas it mentions that there will be an empowered incarnation coming who will be known as isha and who would be the son of .. would be considered as son of God. (The Interviewer translates)

GM : That he would have some sort of very special birth from a virgin. (The Interviewer translates)

GM : And he would be preaching to people who were towards the west of India. (The Interviewer translates)

GM : so i could find the exact sanskrit and send it here to you to the listeners the future .. but this is the basic detail of that particular verse. We take it that the isha means jesa or Jesus.

(The Interviewer translates)

GM : Regarding the second question about worshipping the deities in the temple,

(The Interviewer translates)

GM : Of course the bible says we should not worship false gods or false idols.

(The Interviewer translates)

GM : We know that in the old testaments there was a worship of golden calf was condemned by Moses.

(The Interviewer translates)

GM : In the Vedas it also mentions that we should have no one, consider no one as equal or greater to the supreme personality of godhead.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : There is only one supreme person who is the supreme father and origin of everyone.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : But the system is given in the vedas that for those who are not pure enough to see the lord, they can worship Him through the process of deity worship.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : And this is a one of the six types of incarnations of godhead mentioned in the vedas. (The interviewer translates)

GM : known as the archa avatar or the worshipable deity incarnation of the lord.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : And if someone is able to witness the installation ceremony of the deity, then one can understand that is a very profound experience.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : First, a deity is made according to the descriptions of the lord as found in the scriptures. (The interviewer translates)

GM :But that is not considered to be a deity yet.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :Simply a reflection.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So then the deity is that the image is purified through various mantras and ceremony. (The interviewer translates)

GM :And then finally one very senior or great devotee requests that the lord personally, since he is all pervasive and all powerful, he personally be present or accept the worship in the form of this deity.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :And the lord is requested that,"Please come and be present in this form, be, remain here as this form and be pleased by our service to you.

(The interviewer translates) GM : After the installation, then the devotees treat the deity form of the lord as the direct presence of the lord himself.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :and the lord reciprocates with his devotees in that deity incarnation form according to their faith.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :The devotees offer food to the deity, dress the deity, do all personal services which purify the mind and heart to be able to serve god as if he is directly there.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :One is not serving anyone else. One is directly serving the lord. (The interviewer translates)

GM :There is a story in India about a priest who had to leave his house and he told his young 5 year old boy to take the food before the deity and to offer to the deity, the stone deity of Krishna so that the deity would receive his daily offering of sacred sacrament.

(The interviewer translates)

Interviewer: 5-year old boy left the home ?

GM : No the father left home and the 5 year old boy, the father asked him… Interviewer : When he was away to offer the food to the deity.

GM : Yeah. (The interviewer translates)

GM : So the boy went to his mother and took the offering of sacrament and went and placed it before the stone deity of Krishna in the temple. (The interviewer translates)

GM :He was alone in the temple with the deity of Krishna. (The interviewer translates)

GM :So the boy after giving the plate of offering ,he started to cry. (The interviewer translates)

GM :Then the stone deity talk to the boy said “why you crying?” (The interviewer translates)

GM :My father told me put the offering before you and you will eat it. but you are not eating. So i must be doing something wrong (sounds like crying). Interviewer : (laughs)

GM : I am a stone deity. How can I eat the offering? (The interviewer translates)

GM :Then how you are talking to me? (The interviewer translates)

GM :All I know is my father said to give you the offering, you will eat it. So why you are not eating?

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So then the deity became moveable, and went down and ate the offering. (The interviewer translates)

GM :Because the little boy had complete faith that this is Krishna and he will take the offering, so Krishna completely reciprocated.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : So if a person has a complete faith in deity, the deity reciprocates and satisfies the desires of the devotee or purifies the devotee and brings the devotee close to him. Interviewer : Hare Krishna Dominica.

(Dominica asks a question in Italian)

Interviewer to Dominica : OK . Hare Krishna.

Interviewer : So Dominica is asking this question. She says Caitanya Mahaprabhu never did say he was God ahh.. as instead Krishna did say he was God in Bhagavad-gita. So the question is how can we be so sure, how can we say that Caitanya Mahaprabhu is God.?

GM : This is a very good question. (The interviewer translates)

GM :But how do we know if someone is an incarnation of godhead? (The interviewer translates)

GM :Basically, the Vedas say that we should not sentimentally accept someone to be an incarnation of Godhead whimsically. (The interviewer translates)

GM :The first thing is that an incarnation of Godhead is always predicted in the Vedas. (The interviewer translates)

GM :Which give some detail about the appearance and the activities of the predicted incarnation or avatar.

Interviewer : detail of the activity and .. ? ..

GM : of the appearance and the activities

Interviewer : ok .. continues to translate

GM : so for instance in the srimad bhagavatam there is a sloka which predicts that Krishna is going to come in this age of Kali in a golden color.

(The Interviewer translates)

GM : kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32)

So there, it mentions that the lord will come associated with many associates and assistants.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : That he will come as a devotee and he will engage in glorifying the holy name of Krishna, the supreme personality of Godhead.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :And those who were very intelligent, they would take advantage of his movement. they will practice his process.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : And there are literally dozens of predictions from different parts of the vedic literatures about a coming of such an incarnation in this age of Kali.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : So, first of all, the scholar,studying the character of Caitanya Mahaprabhu they came to the conclusion that he was in fact the fulfillment of their prediction.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :But because he was playing the part of a devotee… a devotee would never admit or think that he is God. So therefore if he was asked or told that you are God, he would always deny it and say, "No I m a devotee. Don't say such a thing."

(The interviewer translates)

GM :When lord Caitanya first went to the temple of Krishna in Jagannatha puri, when he saw a Krishna deity he fell unconsciousness in ecstasy in the temple room.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So that time he was taken by the head priest of the temple to his house and he examined Lord Caitanya to see what state he was in.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : So that time he found that lord Caitanya had no pulse and no breath. (The interviewer translates)

GM :But still he appeared to be alive. (The interviewer translates)

GM :So that time he placed a ball of cotton in front of the nose of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. (The interviewer translates)

GM :Then he saw that very slightly the cotton was moving, that actually, he was in a very deep state of samadhi.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : But that, that didn't convince the head priest that he was an incarnation of Godhead. That convinced him that he was a very great saint at that point.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :But then gradually other symptoms started to be recognized that simply by chanting the name of Caitanya or seeing Caitanya, people started to feel the spontaneous love for god.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :And they started to see the different effects and activities of Caitanya mahaprabhu in delivering even the most fallen souls to the highest state of god consciousness.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So finally he also, the head priest, he became convinced that the Lord Caitanya was in fact was an incarnation of Godhead, because he had qualities which exactly matched the predictions and which were totally uncommon in every respect.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :But there's someone else who is phoning now. So it is difficult now in this short time to give all of the examples, but in the Caitanya caritamrita ,there are many in the Adi lila, there are many explanations, why lord Caitanya's divinity is accepted. We recommend people read this for their deeper understanding.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :But there is just one thing all of the listeners they could try themselves by repeating and chanting the names of Caitanya mahaprabhu and if they by chanting even 5 minutes or 15 minutes in their home and then chanting hare krishna if they feel a spiritual force that would also prove to them that this name still has that..

(The interviewer translates)

GM :You can just repeat one time along with us.

GM: sri krsna Caitanya

interviewer : sri krsna Caitanya

GM : prabhu nithyanandha

Interviewer : prabhu nithyanandha

GM : sri advaitha gadhadhar

interviewer : sri advaitha gadhadhar

GM : srivas

Interviewer : srivas

GM : adi

Interviewer : adi

GM : gaura

Interviewer : gaura

GM : bhaktha

interviewer : bhakta

GM : vrindha

interviewer : vrinda

Interviewer : hare krishna

(listener asks a question in Italian)

Interviewer to a listener : Hare krishna.

Interviewer : So Luce was from Parma he wants to know, before there used to be like one spiritual master in the parampara in this chain of spiritual masters. so he wants to know how come now there is so many spiritual masters you know because he has there was gurudev and now he heard you and Srila Jagdish maharaj, and they heard Prabhavishnu swami, Mukundha maharaj. so he says how come now there is so many spiritual masters. Is it because there is more of need in this age or what? What is it. is it this right for the parampara that there is so many. GM : So actually it's not that there was only one spiritual master, but we normally mention the principal or most famous spiritual master at that time.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : When lord Caitanya was touring throughout India he was empowering a person in each village to be a spiritual master for their village.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :He empowered them with this verse.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128)

That whoever you see or meet, you give them simply the teachings of the lord without any change. In this way you deliver your people; you deliver your land to Krishna, devotional service.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So actually there were… at a time of lord Caitanya there were hundreds (if not thousands)of persons who were initiating disciples.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :But lord Caitanya himself, He very rarely gave initiation. He would normally have His other followers do that service.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :And just after Lord Caitanya, the next generation there were several very famous spiritual masters who are cooperating with each other for expanding lord Caitanya's message. (The interviewer translates)

GM : Srinivas acharya, narottama das thakura and shyamananda pandit are three of those very famous spiritual masters who are cooperating together.

(The interviewer translates) :

The interviewer asking checking with GM : Shyamananda Goswami?

GM : Pandit.

GM :They brought all the sacred literatures from Vrindavan where they had been written by the direct disciples of lord Caitanya and distributed them all over eastern India and Bengal and orissa.

(The interviewer translates)

Interviewer checking with GM : south of india, you said?

GM : Eastern.

GM : And so sometimes they were together, sometimes they divided and they each preached in their own, separate parts of the country.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So at that time they had a big festival where all of gurus and preachers came together and there were hundreds of them who came together at one time.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :Actually, it's a level of development in one's spiritual life where one has gain some spiritual knowledge, he should try to give that to others and not be selfish and keep it himself.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So this there's more phone calls. I should go to the next question? Interviewer to listener : Haribol John Franco.

John Franco Hare krishna.

Interviewer : Hare krishna

The Interviewer to GM : He offers you his obesiances.

(GM Responds in Italian)

Interviewer : So his question is this : he was just reading in the srimad bhagavatam about Karonadakasayi vishnu and all the universes come out. This is what he said of course and all the universes coming out of his body, from the pores of his body, but the question is he also read that in the srimad bhagavatam that brahma is actually the creator of the universe. So he doesn't understand.

GM : ah ahaan haan

Interviewer: So he wants a clearing on this subject.

GM : so the original creator is the supreme personality of godhead Himself. (The interviewer translates)

GM : And the krsna when he did creates this material world he does that in his form as mahavishnu.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :And from his body he expands the material energy and material universes. (The interviewer translates)

GM :Which form a huge expanse, like an ocean. (The interviewer translates)

GM :Which is called the causal ocean. (The interviewer translates)

GM :Or the mahatattva, the great original material energy. (The interviewer translates)

GM :So within each of the universes, which are like so many millions and unlimited millions of bubbles.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :The lord enters into each universe in another as a expansion and that expansion is known as the garbodakashayi vishnu. (The interviewer translates)

GM :And from Garbodakashayi Vishnu in each universe a brahma is born.

(The interviewer translates)

GM : Without any mother, simply directly from this form of God, he gives his appearance to Brahma who is the first created being in each universe.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :Those souls who want to be directly… perform this act of creating a universe and being the father of a universe, they … if they are very pious, they can become a brahma and be directly a son of God.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :This brahma form takes the material elements which are already created by the supreme Godhead and he manipulates them and makes planets and does the secondary creation. (The interviewer translates)

GM :Just like a building will take bricks and stones and cement to make a building, but the cement and ingredients they are already created by nature.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So the original ingredients for the creation are given by the lord himself and brahma simply does the secondary creation. He is not the original cause.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :What is another question?

Interviewer : Yes, there is another person on the phone.

Interviewer : Hare Krishna, Paula.

Paula (listener on the phone) : hare krishna

GM : hare krishna

(Paula asks her question)

Interviewer : Hare krishna paula.

GM : Hare krishna.

Interviewer: Paula is asking a question before she mentions what the pope said about homosexuality and he said this is the symptom of very unorderly and confused society. and it's a symptom of also confused mind. so she says it doesn't seem like a lot of help for these people who are living very a bad experience for long time. so she wants to know what is your suggestion for these people for these kind of persons who are having this problem from a vaishnava point of view.

GM : In the vedas homosexuality is mentioned that it existed even millions of years before.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :But that time it was very rare. it wasn't as widely practiced as it appears to be today.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :The point is the movement of krishna consciousness given by lord Caitanya is for the total emancipation of the living entity.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :That any form of material sense gratification is incomplete and cannot fully satisfy the all spiritual living entity.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :Therefore, for complete satisfaction of the self we need to acheive spiritual satisfaction.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :Which can be easily achieved by chanting hare krishna and engaging in devotional service.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :This is known as the process of bhakti yoga.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So those people they would take the homosexual will take shelter of bhakti yoga then they could realize that trying to simply enjoy senses material sense gratification, is actually simply wasting their valuble human energy and causing them to again and again take repeated reincarnations.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :The vedas accept that sexual activity is one natural aspect of life.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :But it should be practically used as a service for the lord and its natural use is to produce children who can be the future generation of the world for uplifting the world in krishna and god consciousness.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :But that sex, although it is the most widely advertised material happiness is actually insignificant compared to the spiritual ecstasy one achieves when one has love for godhead.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :Therefore in the krishna conscious movement we have married couples and we don't recommend that they have to separate they can be may married because if they are fully absorbed in krishna consciousness, the happiness of the krishna consciousness would be much greater than any material happiness they will enjoy in their married life. (The interviewer translates)

GM :While they are satisfying ,while they are living a natural family life at the same time they can develop a higher attachment and taste for spiritual ecstasy.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :We would agree with the pope that the present impersonal nature of society encourages people into homosexual activities and other activities which are…

(The interviewer translates)

GM :If there are experiments using mice where they put hundreds and hundreds of mice in a very crowded multi-storeyed habitation and they found that even the mice became homosexual under the circumstances.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So but mice in natural habitat they don't they are not homosexual.

(The interviewer translates)

GM :So therefore just like in our farm here, in Villa Vrindavan we are recommending a simple living, a natural living in a cultivation of a higher spiritual nature and this will bring out our actual spiritual potential for sure to counteract the evil effects the degrading effects of this impersonal age of kali.

Interviewer : I think it's time to close. We surpassed already an hour that we are supposed to keep for our program.

Interviewer : speaking in local language -- hare krishna !!haribol!! GM : haribol!! hare krishna !!

Transcribed by : Vaishnavi dasi