19810621-Evening-Darshan-Kuala-Lumpur-Malaysia-Literal-Version

The following is a class given by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami Maharaja on June 21, 1981 in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Jayapataka Swami: …here they came to Mayapur but I am also initiating in Chile, Peru and Bolivia in Latin America, South America as well as the south eastern United States.

Question: For how long are you here?

Jayapataka Swami: So I visit there and I also initiating a few… those are my fixed… where I visit regularly, but I visit two, three times a year I make like a world tour so then I have disciples also in Canada, different parts.

Question: I have a question to ask. Each temple each congregation, Europe, America, India, are they independent of each other or you know there is some sort of a link, financial and resources?

Jayapataka Swami: Financially and managerially each temple is like an autonomous unit. But then there is like an overall supervision of those. Each country is separately registered and managed. But then just to see that overall the standard is the same, so then there are different commissioners who are responsible to a central body called the Governing Body Commission. There’s 24 members. Like the Governing Body Commissioner for Malaysia is Hamsadutta Swami. And I am for Thailand and India like that. Then some of the areas I am joint with another one. Some places I am exclusive.

And apart from that there is the issue of who is Spiritual master. Anyone can accept initiation from anyone that they have faith in who is the authorized spiritual master. But generally the person to whom one gets more teaching from or who to whom one develops faith, that is one that one accepts initiation from. So generally the local… whoever is the local person that’s coming more often naturally one will gain faith so that’s generally what happens. But like Bhima he’s a disciple of Kirtanananda Swami, who is our new Vrindavana which is world famous in West Virginia that palace. So he made that.

[aside] Right now I am alright.

You are nervous; you are biting your finger nails.

Reply: When I think of more questions I usually do that. It’s sort of an inspiration. I chew on it.

Jayapataka Swami: You see what we do is we have beads and we chant on our beads and we… that’s more of an inspiration. That give that hooks us like hooking in the plug into the current. When you hook the plug into the socket, then that gives one direct connection with the power house. So we grab onto our beads and start to chant.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna

Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama

Rama Rama Hare Hare

Then Krishna gives us intelligence.

Question: When you chant, your mind’s always better? Does it ever roam?

Jayapataka Swami: In the beginning the mind goes here and there. And one has to just like a little puppy dog running here and there, and you have to bring the mind back to chanting. Then you see in the beginning I could uh, remember that there were times when I could be chanting and my mind would think of other things. And although I was chanting so many beads my mind would be going you know but then I would gradually… Prabhupada trained that we had to bring our mind back.

See now when I chant I can’t do anything else. If I chant I can’t think of anything else. I can… if I start thinking of anything else I will stop counting on the beads. Automatically and if I am trying to make some other program or someone is chanting immediately my mind will be drawn to that chanting. Soon as I hear Krishna’s name my mind fixes.

Comment: It comes with practice.

Jayapataka Swami: Somehow it just comes. Of course practice makes perfect. By practice that will happen.

Question: This mind it’s quite hard to control in…

Jayapataka Swami: Of course that’s the point that no can control the mind, mind is very difficult to control, but by chanting the mind becomes under control by Krishna’s mercy. So the best way of controlling the mind is to regulate ones activities. By regulating then the mind can gradually be brought under control and by chanting the mind becomes purified.

If one starts and stops “I won’t act any more.” How.. Just like sometimes the baby when you try to feed the baby food. If you have ever seen those who are mothers or fathers, that when the baby is being spoon feed sometimes he will just inhales sharply, go like that “I wont eat” but how long he can hold then? exhales, he finally can’t hold, then shove in. So like that someone will say that “No. I won’t anymore act materially, I’ll just stop all action.” How is it possible?

Then as soon as one finally… that one when no longer hold, then they fall down like that great yogis they simply do very great austerities, but then when the temptation comes at one point they give in. So we are living in a world where there is always so many temptations; so the thing is that in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is more powerful… one doesn’t have to stop you see eating, doesn’t have to stop sleeping or doesn’t have to stop having children, but these things have to be regulated. Others, they’re not regulated if one sleeps too much or eats too much or doesn’t have any regulation in mating, then what happens is that gradually one becomes more and more… the mind becomes uncontrollable.

So therefore if one practices regulation and chants. Regulation alone is not enough but also chanting, associating with Vaishnavas with great devotees, taking uh, Krishna Prasad and these things they give us a taste. We have to develop… there’s a higher taste. The higher taster is there but we have lost it. So as we get a little purified, as the mirror of our consciousness becomes cleansed and we can actually taste what is spiritual bliss. And when we get a taste of spiritual bliss then it’s not difficult to control the mind, you see.

Just like if someone is eating in a hotel. I don’t know in India they called hotel restaurant, what do you say restaurant?

Reply: Both.

Jayapataka Swami: Then someone says “Well your hotel is not very good it’s not so clean. And food is actually third grade. You should try this other for the same price it is very good.” And you go to the other restaurant and find that it’s a very high quality but cheap rate, then easily you give up the old place and come to the new place. Because it’s better food. So in the same way if one develops… if one experiences a higher pleasure, has that higher taste, then the mind is automatically controlled. Doesn’t think about the lower.

So in the beginning before one gets the higher experience, there is an interim period when one has to have regulation and does practice, like she said, practice makes perfect, you see. And then as one gets purified and actually experience a higher taste then it’s no longer a forced thing, it’s spontaneous. That is the beginning of spontaneous devotion.

So we are always hankering “When will my devotion becomes spontaneous. When it doesn’t have to be forced by the intelligence. I don’t have to force my mind but the mind will automatically come. So that comes with abhyasa with practice. Not that the practice… it’s kind of an acquired thing but practice of devotional service purifies our consciousness and then finally this spontaneous devotion comes by mercy of guru and Krishna. Is that all right?

Question: I am so curious you said, that there should be regulation in mating a curious question that I have in mind the thing is regulate mating this means it’s only for having children, otherwise you (inaudible), or does it mean that in a married stage you can, you know mate any time you wish, and it’s better if you have children as a result of that? What does regulated mating mean then?

Jayapataka Swami: Well there is different stages of advancement. So, some people they want to finish up their business, I mean by finishing up their business want to make this lifetime their last life. You know, we’ve been here in this material world for a long time going through so many births and rebirths. And if someone is determined that in this life time, “I want to complete my material life and go back to god go back to the spiritual sky and to realize fully my spiritual nature.” that is a very great determination. So the followers of Shankaracharya, they were always saying that “To do that one would have to be a sannyasi.” Which means complete abstention from any mating at all, any association of women, you see.

But of course Shankaracharya and our sampradaya Madhvacharya Gaudiya we are little bit opposed when we get to highest understanding; we agree both that one should get out of the material world and we agree that the Absolute Truth is fully spiritual but he is an impersonalist and we believe that beyond the impersonal truth there is spiritual personality of Krishna which is the foundation of the impersonal Brahmajyoti. So because Krishna’s quality are so attractive and so wonderful then, it’s not necessary that one has to be a sannyasi as Shankaracharya says, but one has to be a different type of a dedicated devotee. That’s a different type of sannyasa you can say. But not the physical sannyasa exactly that Shankaracharya had recommended.

So some devotees who are not determined that they want to finish up the life make this the last life. So for such devotees who do not want to necessarily, do not have that determination that “This should be my last life.” then they chant Hare Krishna and follow married life. And they may not follow such a strict regulation in their mating. They just marry so their license is there when you are married you can have mating with your husband as according to religious principle. But what happens is that of course very strong attachments grow there, and the taste for spiritual life is very difficult to get when there is this type of unrestricted mating even within marriage.

So for someone who is determined that “I want this life to be the last life.” then it is recommended that if one is able to of course it is very difficult, but if one is able to simply to mate only at the… only for procreation that means at the particular time of the month when procreation is ideal you see. Then one in spite of that mating doesn’t have to fear that the person will not go back to Krishna in this life. That if one is chanting the 16 times Hare Krishna every day… 16 rounds, taking Krishna prasadam and only mating at the opportune time of the month with the husband for the… wife whatever it may be, for the procreation. So then these things are not impediments Krishna says that “I am sex life according to religious principles.” dharma-aviruddhaḥ maithuna ahaṁ, Krishna says in the Gita.

So very few even the very strictest of religious families, very few actually follow that type of a strict regulation on mating. It’s a fact. And so of course they are still devotes and they are making some advancement, but the danger is that at the time of death instead of thinking of Krishna, one will be thinking of the wife or the husband. And again have to take another birth. At least whatever amount of Krishna conscious activities they perform will always stand by their side. They never lose that, and maybe that after a period or just a couple of years, even they will also be able to become stronger spiritually and develop a more mature outlook.

Sometime it’s just different phases, so we encourage everyone to chant to follow taking Krishna prasadam. But if one is got the determination that “In this life husband and wife we are going to have Krishna conscious child. I don’t want a son or daughter who is going to be a demon, or going to be a non-devotee or just some type of product of lust.” That if the husband wife pray to Krishna, you see, before conception for having a Krishna conscious child, you see. And then this is called the garbhadhana samskara, which was previously the system for higher caste members of the Vedic culture and in that type of a very… as an offering that the child “We want to make this child as an offering to Krishna when the child is born we want that this child be trained in religious principles will be given the best possible chance to become a pure devotee of Krishna.” With this type of consciousness, then naturally… and the affection but as a devotion than they have their conception. And if a child is born from that conception then they feel the obligation to raise that child in Krishna consciousness or god consciousness.

So what happens is the soul you see that takes shelter of the womb at the time of conception, is attracted according to the mentality of the husband and the wife. So naturally if there is just a regular type of informal mating or whatever you like to call it, then basic mentality would not be so much in the religious mood but it would be even so much in a type of mood which is you see, tinged with a God conscious purpose. But basically just lusty and so naturally that will attract different a lusty type of a soul into the womb. And so in this way one may have children that are not so bright or so intelligent. The… In Australia in America in different places, the school board inspector have come by and said that our children in Krishna consciousness are generally two to three grades above their contemporaries in others school that they are more well-mannered, they are more intelligent, they learn quickly they appear to be more quick and bright faced. They actually recorded this it was on TV in Australia. I don’t know if you have the video here. You don’t have oh. They gave all the certificates. So this may also be due to Krishna consciousness mating.

So just like leaving the body is a science also giving birth is a science. So to give uh, birth to a nice child you see that means at that moment, whatever the consciousness of husband and wife that’s the type of soul will take shelter. So if one has purified consciousness that’s possible if it’s at a regulated… at a particular time but if it’s just a spontaneous kind of thing whenever the urge is there to do it, then naturally you can’t say what kind of child will take shelter.

So these are all kind of intricacies. One part is that the child that does come that is a real planned child because actually the planning is done through prayers and through uh, spiritual type of determination. And the other part is determination not to get… not to place that mating as the goal of life or as the highest pleasure in life, so that is temporary thing. Which naturally is a natural need we have a natural impulse which is there. It’s also exchange of affection, but the real higher affection and higher exchange we want to develop is our love with God, so not to become overly attached to something which is not the ultimate goal.

So therefore it’s recommended to regulate for someone who is determined that he wants to get out in this one life. But if someone doesn’t have that determination yet, cannot practice such a… because it difficult cannot practice such an abstention to simply mate at once a month as is recommended. Still one should chant hare Krishna and read to books and try to develop in other respects as much as possible. Maybe later on in this life the determination will come hopefully there will still be enough time, at that time to be successful.

It’s not like some kind of fanatic dogmatic thing. It’s a very practical… You know when I was in Latin America and then one newspaper reporter woman, she asked the same question. “We hear that you only allow of your initiated people sex life once in a month.”

And I said “Yes but you can have as many children as you want.”

Said, “I don’t want any children.” she said. She was a very you know modern women, “I don’t want any children.” And then she said “You don’t take any intoxication, no drinking, no cigarettes, no marijuana, you don’t take any meat fish or eggs you don’t gamble.” She said, “So what else is there in life? So everything is gone!”

I said “Not quite everything. Don’t we seem to be very happy people?”

She said that “Well…” then she put it in the newspaper cosi dos metros a Krishna espiritualidad. Which means that… cosi means almost dos means two metros mean meters of Krishna espiritualidad means spirituality. You see she took a picture of me and said “Two meters of Krishna spirituality.” That she said that “They don’t do this don’t gamble, no meat eating, no… except for regulated no sex life, no intoxication, so therefore it must be spirituality there is nothing else left.”

No but you see, we offer nice foodstuff to Krishna. You see, devotees they wear nice clothing nice facility. I… We chant hare Krishna that’s our you can say that’s our intoxication, that’s everything you see. And as far as gambling, whole life is a gamble at every moment. Why, why put further risk? You walk down the street it’s a gamble. So we don’t need to gamble because we are placing ourselves in Krishna’s hands. We don’t see need a type of artificial thrills. Life itself is a big enough thrill for us because we actually see how Krishna is helping us and protecting us.

But so it’s a very big jump for these people in the West to understand these things. It’s even a very… modern Indian and Indian even the Hindus it’s very difficult for them nowadays to understand these things. So we have a program where we encourage people at least to start chanting, to start to practice and uh, hopefully in this life they will develop a higher taste. Everyone likes to say “When I get older.” But of course by that time if we don’t start practicing now when we get older that it’s already too late. You know, we already develop so many bad habits.

Like Prahlada Maharaja... You know Prahlada? He was the five year old boy very famous in Indian culture. He was uh, the son of a great demon Hiranyakashyapu. Hiranyakashyapu… Hiranya means gold and kashyapu means soft beds. And that’s what he was.

He performed a very strict tapasya. For 100 years he stood up on one foot or two feet with arms in the air and practically… it was in the previous age where one could stay alive as long as the will power was there. So his life had gone right into his bones and actually his flesh everything was being eaten by ants everything but still he was standing there determined.

So finally Lord Brahma came and sprinkled water from his pot… his kamandalu pot and he was given a form again very strong beautiful body. And Brahma said that “What do you want? You are doing this very strict penance.”

He said “I want to be immortal, give me immortality.”

And he said “But I am not immortal. How can I give what I don’t have.”

And then he said “Brahma, we heard that you are immortal. People say that you are amara.”

“Well they say I am amara because by their calculation my life is so long. But take my word for it I also eventually die even though after millions and millions of years.”

So then he gave a… he made a… said that, “Give me this boon then that I can’t be killed by demigod or by a man or by an animal, that I can’t be killed at day time or at night, I can’t be killed on the land in the sky or in the water.” Like this he made so many conditions so that way he figured “Well in this way I am immortal because I can’t be killed by any of these things.” So actually he conquered all the demigods he became the controller of the whole universe and many many… In the previous age in the satya yuga many many years ago, in the puranas this history is there.

So while he was meditating while he was doing this tapasya. He was an atheist, in the real sense. His wife was pregnant but the child was Prahlada. Prahlada is actually a great devotee of Krishna. So the demigods they saw that his wife was pregnant they wanted they captured his wife. They were going to… as soon as the child was born they were going to kill, because they thought “We already have this one big demon, so that if we have another demon it will be too much. So we better kill him while we have the chance.” But then Narada he stopped and said “No don’t kill. It’s actually a great devotee.”

While in the womb of the mother Narad Muni was giving teaching and after a certain time when we are in the womb we become conscious, after seven months six, seven months the baby in the womb starts to become conscious. And at that time has very clear intelligence even remembers sometimes 100 births in the past. But it’s very uncomfortable there. Kicking around, its very difficult.

So at that time Narada Muni instructed the whole science of Krishna consciousness to the mother, but actually to the baby in the womb. So, mother she forgot later on unfortunately, but Prahlada never forgot. So right from his birth, he was always chanting so when his father got this power came back and he established his dominion over the universe, then uh, he tried to educate his son in materialism. But the son was already you can say poisoned by Krishna Consciousness from before birth.

So when he said that “You should learn…” he learned everything but he said “What’s the use of all these things? You want to teach me how to simply make profit and how to exploit when ultimately the proprietor is Krishna.” And his father would get furious and say “Don’t say this. I am the proprietor see my power I don’t believe in God and all these things.”

And so in this way there was always a conflict between the father and the son. So when sent his son, he to the teachers the two teacher he said I want you to brain wash him, deprogram him, I want you to make him into a complete you see materialist. And they take him to school and train him, but as soon as the teachers would leave he stood up on the teacher’s desk and told all the children, “Come on I want you all to chant Hare Krishna.” and they said, “no. We don’t want to chant, now we are children we want to play this is recess.”

He says “No, you are saying that you are five years old it’s not time. But first ten years of your life first half of life you waste sleeping first ten years of your life you are going to just be like this you know no intelligence just running around. Next ten years you’re going to play sports education so many things. Then from twenty till forty fifty sixty then you have the whole family affairs. You have running after the family life, so there you are going to be completely absorbed. In the last the 20 years you are old, you have rheumatism, arthritis, this that, so many problems. You are not feeling energetic, teeth are falling, whatever… lose your eyesight, so all these things are there. The last 20 years you are not going to be energetic so where is the time? Considering this, where is the time? So therefore even now at five years of age, we have to start chanting.”

He said “kaumāra ācaret prajño right from kumar boys, right from five years. Begin now.” you see. Then see he convinced all… they all started chanting. Then teachers came and saw that everyone was chanting. He said “The king is going to cut off my head. You are all chanting God’s name. I am going to be killed.” He dragged Prahlada and gave him to the King Hiranyakashyapu. Said “Your son is creating this problem.” So then he tried to kill his son in so many ways.

He said “Alright. Take him and throw him in boiling oil.” They threw him in boiling oil and but by Krishna’s mercy he was swimming in the boiling oil. It didn’t burn him. They threw him in a pit of snake, the snakes coiled around in neck and he was playing with them. They didn’t bite him. He was always chanting Hare Krishna.

Then they took him and held him over a cliff they said “Where is your Krishna going to save you now?”

He says “Krishna is always there protecting.” This five years old son.

He became so envious, that “You don’t except me as God. You say that this Krishna is God that there is some other god than me.”

So then he said “You deny God otherwise I cast you in this huge over the cliff.” you know. Thousands of feet drop. “So what do you say?”

“Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna…”

“Damn you!” threw him.

Their attempts failed, then Hiranyakashyapu he thought that “Let me trick him.” He came and he poisoned him. So he came and he told his son “Actually you haven’t eaten for a long time and it’s been very… After all a son is a son! You know, you shouldn’t keep any grudges. So here I brought you some sweet, just take this ladoo, this sweet.” And he gave him the sweet of course Prahlada was wondering that “My father was so envious, how can I trust?” He prayed to Krishna anyway, that “I can’t how can I accept this food unless this has been offered to you.” Of course his father said “This is prasada don’t worry.”

“How can I accept unless I know this is offered to you, unless you personally come and eat it how can I accept?” So then Krishna came and Krishna took a bite and when Krishna took a bite then all the poison was destroyed and then Krishna personally fed Prahlada. He was so affectionate with Prahlada. Of course then again Hiranyakashyapu plan was foiled so then he came personally to kill Prahlada.

He said “I am going to know personally kill you will my own sword, who is going to save you know? Where is your Krishna?”

“My Krishna is everywhere.”

“Where is your Visnu?” he said.

When he said he was everywhere, he said “Is he here in this column?” And there was a column he said “Yes, he is there also.”

Hiranyakashyapu because so angry that he took his sword and smashed the column. He was so strong like so many elephants. But even that column broke at the point, of a sudden here was a huge roar, “Ahhhhr!” which shook the whole universe. In fact the different planetary residents they thought that the whole universe was coming to an end. Such a sound they never heard it vibrated up and down in an out everywhere. This huge vibration Krishna says in Gita that I am the sound in ether. That when Krishna wants to vibrate He can create such a vibration that vibration can just shatter everything so that sound representation of all pervasiveness Krishna manifested.

And then he came out in this half lion, half man… I gave a short talk to today about half man that’s Nṛsimhadeva and he fought with this Hiranyakashyapu picked him and just throw him in half. So he had… this atheist had all this plans “I can’t be killed on the land in the sea or in water. I can’t be killed by day or by night. I can’t be killed by man animal or demigod.” So of course Krishna is neither man, animal or demigod and he had half man half animal form.

So Hiranyakashyapu couldn’t figure if he was an animal or man or what he was. And he killed him just at the twilight so that wasn’t day or night it was right in between. And he also didn’t kill him on land in the sea or in the water. He killed him on his lap. And this way everything… he got the benedictions from the demigod, Brahma but because he was offending His devotee so Krishna he always protects: “na me bhaktaḥ vinaśyati. My devotee will never perish.” Someone who is surrendered to Krishna, Krishna will never let that devotee perish. So like that the demons they always try to use their intelligence how to escape. But they always get defeated. So better to use intelligence on how to take shelter of Krishna, like Prahlada. So Prahlada he advised we should practice right from now whether we are student or whether we are married or whether unmarried, or whatever we may be.

Either we’re old or young from this point any way we have neglected up to know but from this point on we should take the determination whatever remaining time to try to become Krishna consciousness. It may be that there is still enough time in this life to finish, you see. So Prahlada said that “Even if you are five years old you should begin.” What do you think of that story you didn’t hear that before?

Reply: A few months ago, we had play here and we had a very good half lion half man.

Comment: That was last year.

Reply: Three months back. Right.

Jayapataka Swami: So you have been coming regularly for many months. That’s very nice. Any other question?

Question: Who was Arjuna worshipping before lord Krishna spoke Bhagavad-gita to him?

Jayapataka Swami: Arjuna always worshipped Krishna.

Question: My brother asked me that, who Arjuna was worshipping before Krishna spoke Bhagavad-gita to him.

Jayapataka Swami: He was Krishna’s friend. Before the Gita was spoken there was a fourteen years of what do you call that? Exile, vanavasa. And that time they depended on Krishna. Before that when they were in Hastinapur, half the kingdom was ruled by the Kauravas and half by the Pandavas. And at that time Dvaraka from Dvaraka Krishna visited in the place of lord Krishna.

[aside] You take the towel down. We don’t mind eavesdroppers. Window peeping during darshan is allowed.

Question: Can I ask you a separate question?

Comment: (inaudible) …the question.

Jayapataka Swami: Yes. Krishna visited them in Hastinapur then. It was only a momentary. Krishna used His devotee as an example so he had Arjuna show those weaknesses, so He could speak the Gita to him. But actually Arjuna you see he came Krishna had him come down in consciousness just for that, like a dramatic performance to give the Gita. Otherwise Arjuna was always in that higher position.

Question: I understand that there are four yugas and uh, after the end of kali-yuga the first yuga will come on again.

Jayapataka Swami: [aside] You going? Here take a little prasa... You going now? Make a little path. Hare Krishna. Yes

Question: I was just asking a question there are four yugas and at the end of kali-yuga the first yuga will come on again, is it true?

Jayapataka Swami: Yes. It’s the cycle.

Question: Cycle so everything go on and on.

Jayapataka Swami: Cycle of 4,320,000 years.

Reply: Again 4,320,000 years

Jayapataka Swami: The Satya-yuga is four parts 4/10ths. Treta-yuga is 3/10ths Dvapara-yuga is 2/10ths and Kali-yuga is 1/10th. Four, three, two, one. So four, three, two, one is equal to ten so that total Kali-yuga is 432,000 years and the total 4 yugas is 4,320,000 year. And such there is a 1,000 such cycles in one day of Brahma. That’s why Brahma is called as amara, because he is living such a long time by our standard he is immortal. But he is not. He dies also.

Question: So what happens to him when he dies?

Jayapataka Swami: Well if he is a devotee he goes back to Krishna otherwise if not he has to again come down. It says that for lord brahma is not desirous of entering in Krishna devotional service, then he also has to again come down. ā-brahma-bhuvanāl loke punar āvartino ’rjuna mām upetya tu kaunteya punar janma na vidyate

Even one goes up to Brahmaloka again has to come down if one doesn’t take shelter of Krishna. But ‘mām upetya tu kaunteya’ one who takes shelter of Me Krishna says ’ punar janma na vidyate’ he doesn’t take rebirth.

Question: Why should there be these demigods?

Jayapataka Swami: Huh?

Question: Why should there be these demigods?

Jayapataka Swami: Why should there be? Well, you have a President in this country?

Reply: Not really. King.

Jayapataka Swami: Prime minister. You have Prime Minister. And you have Ministers.

Reply: Yes we have.

Jayapataka Swami: So why have Prime Minister and Ministers when you already have King?

Reply: Because the prime minister capacity is limited Krishna capacity is…

Jayapataka Swami: No, So therefore He has energies. His capacity is that He has energies because the king or because the prime minister has other ministers, that doesn’t necessarily mean that he wasn’t able to do those different departments also. Even if he may not be able to do all of them, Krishna could expand himself to do all the different roles. Just like sometimes there’s not a suitable brahma or a suitable Indra so He also takes those positions. If there no suitable jiva or living entity to do that… take that post then He may also incarnate and take that post

Reply: Because the concept of demigods causes a lot of confusion.

Jayapataka Swami: No doesn’t cause a lot of…

Interruption: We tend to…

Jayapataka Swami: It doesn’t…

Reply: We generally follow them you see and forget Krishna. We forget Krishna.

Jayapataka Swami: Ha. It’s a universal position you see. You can also become a demigod, of certain. You can never become a Shiva you can never. Because Shiva is not ordinary demigod he’s an expansion of Vishnu. But other demigods like Brahma, Varuna, Indra they… a living entity can become you see. It’s a post and so if there is a qualified soul then the soul can get that birth. And then he gets a lot of material power so naturally one realizes that this material power uh, is also destroyed when the universe is destroyed. When this universe is destroyed then the demigods the posts the power everything is destroyed including our bodies. So what is the use of worshipping someone whose power is also going to be destroyed? Better to worship Krishna who is the source of all the power.

So Narada Muni, he criticized Vyasadeva that why did you give so many different type of worship in the Vedas? It’s very confusion for the common people. You should now simply write one literature which is giving the pure path. Which has nothing to do with materialism and at that time then Vyasadeva wrote the Srimad-Bhagavatam that is known as the nirmalam, as the pure sastra or the kalpavrksha the desire tree the ripen fruit nigama kalpataru, phalam the ripened fruit of the desire tree of the Vedas.

So because different living entities have material desires and just by our own endeavors it’s very difficult to get those desires. So Krishna He gave the… He has demigods who are managing the universe. So he showed how one can approach these demigods which are shortcuts to material power. But of course one can say “Well because we distracted from this… we get distracted from real purpose of life why did He do that?” Which Krishna that’s His liberalness that if someone doesn’t want to come back to Him He doesn’t force them. He gives him so many alternatives.

That’s why we say that guru is more kind than Krishna. Krishna gives so many alternatives he told Arjuna you can fight or cannot fight you can surrender or not surrender he is inviting. But the guru he is saying “No you should surrender. You shouldn’t worship demigods for material objectives. You should directly approach Krishna and achieve the perfection of life.” so the devotees of Krishna are more kind than Krishna in one sense that they don’t Krishna is taking a very neutral position. Although He recommends unequivicably that “If you surrender to me I will deliver you. And if you surrender to the demigods then you will go to them you will not come to Me.”

He says that, that “Those who surrender to the demigods they don’t come to Me. They go to the demigods.” deva deva yajoyanti, mad bhakto yanti mam api. Deva yajo. the worshippers of the devas, deva yajoyanti they go to the devas, mad bhakto yanti mam api, My devotees, My worshippers, they come to Me. So Krishna says, the Absolute Truth. He doesn’t hide it but he is also giving that alternative while pure devotes of Krishna they directly say that you should directly surrender to Krishna. That is your best choice.

Question: In the beginning you said in Satya-yuga, millions of years ago people were all good. Then how did this rebirth and did how material contamination enter into the Satya-yuga and how did... Why had only some people have to be reborn, born and reborn again?

Jayapataka Swami: In Satya yuga most of the souls get liberation,

Question: Then in which yuga, only in Kali-yuga so you are saying material contamination exists No what happens is that just like in Satya-yuga Hiranyakashyapu was there but there was one Hiranyakashyapu, you see. But today such types of atheist are many.

Question: No what I mean is there was a time point when…

Jayapataka Swami: This material nature is by nature static. That means that its tendency is to always degrade. So Krishna comes and He puts everything back up to the standard of Satya-yuga and then gradually it disintegrates. So in each yuga there is good and bad qualities.

Like now in Kali-yuga you can say now it’s very degraded people atheistic they have bad habits, short memory so many difficulties are there, you see. Ocean of false. But at the same time there is very good quality that in Satya-yuga to achieve God consciousness one had to spend maximum time at it. But in this Kali-yuga if even on just uses short life fifty, sixty years if one dedicates himself, chants Hare Krishna… not very difficult chants even in the home becomes Krishna conscious, then in this short life one can go back to Krishna.

Question: So we are born again just because sinned, isn’t it?

Jayapataka Swami: Because we have material desires we given chance to satisfy those.

That’s what I mean. Like there was a beginning. In the beginning everybody were good how were people…

Jayapataka Swami: Even in Satya-yuga even they are good, some sin is there. It’s just very little.

Question: Why did they have to be born like that? In the beginning why they had to be born like that?

Jayapataka Swami: You see every… what is sin? Do you know what sin is?

Reply: Sin is being the… away from, away from religious principles.

Jayapataka Swami: You see sin means that that the accumulation of vikarma or bad reactions which are coming. When we do something which is against the religious principles or which is against nature, against our own self-interest. That means it’s harmful to ourselves and to others. So by performing such an act, the reaction for that comes to us in the future. We have to suffer.

If we perform a pious activity or something according to religious principle, that means that then… for that we get material happiness. In which case, we also have to been in the world to enjoy material happiness. So Krishna consciousness is a science of how not only to transcend sin or vikarma reactions which are painful, but also how to transcend punya, or reactions which are pleasant.

Because in this material world even if one… just like if one wins a lottery he still has to wait in line to get his money. You know, even if you get some material happiness, there is always some misery that comes with it. So originally, when we come into the material world once we start acting materially whether accordingly to religious principles, or against, that will give us our relative position and material happiness. Either as a demigod if we are very religious or as a dog or a cat or animal if we are irreligious or as a very sin… unhappy human being, you see. Then we have to suffer the reactions.

So this Krishna Consciousness is how to get freed from those reactions.

Question: No but why did God have to create like… I mean we could have we wanted to have a very nice atmosphere in the world. Why should He create.

Jayapataka Swami: He has a nice atmosphere in the spiritual world and He wants you to go there but you don’t want to go. He already has a nice atmosphere. And the way that there could be a nice atmosphere is when everyone is in harmony. And the only way everyone can be in harmony is when one is God conscious. When one wants to serve God, but if everybody want to serve… just like I may say “I want my happiness.” and he wants his happiness, but our happiness’s are conflicting. Just like someone may say that I want to enjoy this woman and someone would say I want to enjoy her then it’s a conflict. Someone is saying “This island is my country’s property.” and the other country is saying “No it’s my country’s property.” There is a conflict.

So in the material world everyone wants to enjoy but there is conflict because…

Rebuttle: Its all Krishna action, isn’t it. He never just… We’re all just being pulled by ropes.

Jayapataka Swami: No. Not like that. Not like that. They had independence to decide what to do and what not to do. Some minute independence is there. Otherwise, there is no meaning of sin and pious activity. Then Krishna wouldn’t spend so much time telling Arjuna to surrender to Him. Then it would have been just automatic. We do have some independence some minute deciding factor. A person can decide whether to steal or not to steal. But the pull the strings are pulling on him to do… why? Because in the previous life he was thinking “If I stole this thing, I will be happy.” So that pulling is there. But by will power person can overcome that, if he has good association. But generally a person simply follows whatever the desires were in the previous life. So these subtle desires are what are pulling us.

So it’s not that Krishna is pulling but as we are desiring in this life as we die in so many things we thought that… “Well, if I had a color TV I would have been happy. If I would have had a bigger car I would hav been happy, if I had a bigger house…” So then in next life we get a chance for bigger house bigger car if we had done such activity to deserve it. It might that we get a big bird house and be a bird if we were sinful that we can’t say, but we get a chance to satisfy those desires. So because we originally somehow or another were given a choice and that time we didn’t know Krishna we didn’t know Him at that time. So because we decided “Not Krishna.” out of our ignorance we decided not I want be the enjoyer I want to by myself try to enjoy.

So somehow we have come in to material world. And so then Krishna He gives kabhu svarge uṭhāya, kabhu narake ḍubāya and sometimes we come down into the hellish existence. Sometimes we are birds and animals, sometimes we are human beings, sometimes we are king and sometimes we are citizens. So we are wandering around but Krishna is always coming and saying “Come back.” This material world can only be made a perfect place if everybody became a devotee but it’s very hard to make everyone a devotee. In this material world, if it’s all possible it will be possible by Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mercy.

But the thing is that after the devotees die in this world then they go back to Krishna-loka. (Baby cries) See this world is a place of suffering. (Audience laughs)

Comment: Good night. Good night.

Jayapataka Swami: Thank you. Please take a cookie, if you like.

Comment: I just had prasadam.

Jayapataka Swami: So this is the dessert.

You are another one of our fiery inquirers. Hare Krishna.

Alright. It’s not that Krishna is so cruel that He is putting us here. He doesn’t want us to stay here. But we are so stubborn we don’t want to go. He is saying “You come back.” He is saying “You come back.” but then we are saying that “Well…” it’s like we’ve fallen into the ocean and someone is coming to save us and throws the rope. And we are saying “Well, why did I fall in here anyway? This is all your fault.” [aside ]Hare Krishna. Thank you.

Krishna doesn’t want us to be here but He is… He is not forcing that we have to serve Him otherwise where is the question of service? He wants us we to love Him. So love means that there has to be voluntary. Right, I was discussing this yesterday that love means voluntary. So that means we have to have a choice otherwise it’s not voluntary. If there is no choice than its mechanical, it is not voluntary. So we made a wrong choice. So now we should try to go back to Krishna.

Question: Some of my friends posed questions regarding the everyone were to follow Krishna consciousness there’s a lot of unemployment. There wouldn’t be any riches. There would be lot of unemployment.

Jayapataka Swami: In other words if the prison house is closed then how the government will go on? So far we never heard anyone raise such a problem. So many millions of dollars are being spent on prison houses, so if there are no prisoners then the government won’t find other uses to spend their money. But there will always be some criminals in the material world you don’t have to worry, you see, but of course they will reduce. But you will always find a few candidates. You see, even we found that in this material world… that’s what the material world because it means that always two kinds of people criminal and faithful, demon and demigod. So sometime the demons come on top and sometime the demigods come on top.

So devotees they are transcendental they are not exactly demigods although they appear to be like demigods. Devotee means that he is actually… pure desire not only wants to enjoy the material world he just wants to please Krishna. Demigod means he wants to enjoy material world but he wants to be faithful to God. And the demon wants to enjoy but he is envious of God. So there will always be a few demons to be in prison house but hardly any, you see.

When in the Dvapara-yuga after they did the sacrifice it said that Yudhisthira he just laid the gold and everything in one heap, you see. By the side of the palace, and after a few years they wanted to do another sacrifice and they went looking “Where the gold?” and they found its still there. So now days if you put your parker pen down for a minute, you go back in one minute it’s gone. In those days they had few tons of gold they left it and they came back and still no one touched it. It wasn’t their gold. So definitely that type of consciousness can be there.

This is a foolish thing if we say that “Well if the criminals stop they will lose so many jobs.” That means you don’t have to waste so many people for crime fighting. They can grow rice, or they can chant Hare Krishna. Nature will provide so many other ways. This is not a problem. But that will be a long time. We’ll find there’ll always be a few criminals, but they will reduce.

What happens when the… when the good people become stronger then the criminals get afraid. Just like if a criminal tries to rob, all the people all jump on him, you see. They actually get afraid so when the good people will start becoming stronger when more criminals are converted to good people also, then the remaining criminals they become a little bit afraid because they are outnumbered.

So its late I guess everyone should go home now. Unless you have any more urgent question. [aside] You don’t count. You’re a devotee. No you can ask in the morning when I give the morning class. This is the Sunday night special. So, you have so many questions, now you’ll have to come more often than on Sundays.

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Transcribed by Vamsidhara Visala Das

Revised by Jagannatha dasa Brahmacari

Tags: Governing Body Commission, Chanting, Krishna consciousness, Mating, Hiranyakashyapu, Prahlada maharaja, Nrsimhadeva, Satya Yuga, Kali Yuga, Demigods, Srimad Bhagavatam, vikarma