19851001 Bhagavad-gita.9.1 No One Can Give Perfect Knowledge Of Krishna If he Is Envious @ New Talavan, USA

Bhagavad Gita Chapter 9.1 No One can give Perfect Knowledge of Krishna If he is Envious New Tala

Following is a lecture given by HH Jayapataka Swami on October 1st 1985 at New Tala ___ (0:25). The Class begins with reading from the Bhagavad Gita Chapter 9 Text 1. śrī-bhagavān uvāca idaṁ tu te guhya-tamaṁ pravakṣyāmy anasūyave jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitaṁ yaj jñātvā mokṣyase ’śubhāt

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence. Purport: As a devotee hears more and more about the Supreme Lord, he becomes enlightened. This hearing process is recommended in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: “The messages of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are full of potencies, and these potencies can be realized if topics regarding the Supreme Godhead are discussed amongst devotees.” This cannot be achieved by the association of mental speculators or academic scholars, for it is realized knowledge. The devotees are constantly engaged in the Supreme Lord’s service. The Lord understands the mentality and sincerity of a particular living entity who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and gives him the intelligence to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa in the association of devotees. Discussion of Kṛṣṇa is very potent, and if a fortunate person has such association and tries to assimilate the knowledge, then he will surely make advancement toward spiritual realization. Lord Kṛṣṇa, in order to encourage Arjuna to higher and higher elevation in His potent service, describes in this Ninth Chapter matters more confidential than any He has already disclosed.

So here, several very important points have been brought up so far, that more we hear about Krishna, more we hear from the Srimad Bhagvatam, Bhagavad Gita, the authorized scriptures then the more we become enlightened. These topics as supposed to be especially heard in the association of devotees. In Navadwip during the time of Lord Chaitanya, there was a non-devotee by the name of Devananda Pandit who ____ (3:16) discuss the Srimad Bhagavatam but he would discuss from a materialistic point of view, from an academic point of view. So, Lord Chaitanya, he never went to that, to that assembly. They would criticize Krishna in many ways so they discussed in a very dry way, the topics of the Bhagavatam. So, one day Srivas Pandit, he went to ___ (3:48) that side of Navadwip to __ (3:50). The other side of river is known as ____ (3:54) where present day city of Navadwip is, on the other side of the river from Mayapur. And there, well he heard that the Bhagavatam was being spoken so he thought let me sit down for a second and listen. So he heard about a particular topic about Krishna, he started meditating on that topic, he became very ecstatic and he became stunned. He was just sitting there and tears were coming from his eyes and Devananda Pandit, see people were looking at him, what is going on here? So Devananda Pandit said, “What is this? He is creating a disturbance, Pick him up and throw him in the street”. So the students went and they picked up, that time Srinivas Pandit was totally stunned. They picked him up, carry him out and then threw him in the street and then he came to his consciousness. Did not really affect him much just went ah, “Sorry that he created the disturbance”. Lord Chaitanya heard ‘Not Audible’ (5:11) that they have insulted a bonafide devotee and he ___ (5:17) his followers that they should not go and listen the Bhagavatam ___ (5:23) from people who are not authorized, from people who are not qualified to represent the opinion of the previous Acharyas. So, In fact, Mukunda Das, he went trying listen to his one lecture and this was so disturbing to Lord Chaitanya who warn them many times not to go that he told its Govinda das .. I forget... So he told his secretary follower that, “You tell Mukunda that he cannot come and see me, he is forbidden from coming to see me, Forever”. So, then Mukunda Das tried to, Mukunda Dutta tried to see the Lord. Even though, Mukunda Dutta was son of Vasudev Dutta, he was a kind of great, big Sankirtan Leader. Because of his tendency to listening to non-authorized people, he was banned from Lord Chaitanya’s group. So then, the other followers they tried to ___ (6:50) that the Lord Chaitanya wouldn’t entertain. I don’t want to see the face of someone who is listening to the mayavadis and to the ideas and so on. So then, Mukunda Dutta sent in a message, “When will I be able to see you Lord”. He kept asking this. So then, Lord Chaitanya __ (7:18) he was fasting, he is very frustrated, he couldn’t, he was being banned, he was feeling very banned. So, Lord Chaitanya said that you cannot see me for 1 crore births, 10 million births __ (7:36) you tell him that. So they went out and told him that, “You cannot see Lord Chaitanya for 10 million births”. Mukunda Dutta, then he jumped up Loudly Haribol, Haribol, Gaur Haribol, Haribol, won’t be able to see Lord Chaitanya, Haribol, I will never see him, Haribol, Haribol, Haribol, jumping up and down in ecstasy. But it is 10 million births, when he thought is one thing is he will never see Lord Chaitanya at least after 10 million I am assured he promised I will be able to see him. Laughter. Haribol, Haribol. So then Lord Chaitanya said, ‘”What is all the commotion going outside?” Laughter. So they went and they came back and said well this is what happened, He is dancing because you promised you will see him after 10 million births when he was hopeless you will never be able to see him again. Then Lord Chaitanya said, “Alright bring him in”. But, there are very few instances where Lord Chaitanya rejecting the devotees and this is one of the instances. Sometimes, I hear devotees say that well, “It is alright read other books, read other philosophies and hear other people”. But, it is not something that has just come from ISKCON’s time, it’s not. It is something that came __ (9:13) from the very time of Lord Chaitanya. In fact, he said, “Mayavadi Katha Sunine, Mayo Sarvonash”. That if you hear the discussions from Mayavadis Impersonalists, then your spiritual life is destroyed. And Sarvonash, nash means destruction, sarvonash is the complete destruction, annihilated is the proper word. It is annihilated not simply destroyed, it is annihilated. And this has been the theme handed down. Bhakti Vinod Thakur, he expanded that apart from these Mayavadis, there are also many upper Sampradayas. ___ (9:58). Ah, __ (10:14), these guys who wear the long beards and walk around think they are fakirs or some great, this is one type. Then there is Sakhi Beki, the one who dress up like Gopis and wear sarees and then there is ___ (10:30) think that body is pure, their body is a Temple so whatever it does is pure including all of its organic kind of functions. So sometimes, just to show that they put stool on as Tilak and things like that. That is the lighter of the some of the things that they do and then anyway. So, in all these kind of __ (10:52) where they get some point of philosophy and they take it and they go off. But, because the __ (10:58) was, somehow it appears to be something like Vaishnav but they get ____ (11:04) and attention because of not strictly following the line of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Line of Gaudiya, Brahma, Madhava Gaudiya Vaishnavas, so it’s always been restricted that we do not associate with such, if they are Vaishnavs, if they are chanting, we may respect them from a distance and a hug. But, we don’t even bow down to them or associate with them what to speak of sit and with oral reception take into our consciousness what they are speaking. We don’t do that because, it is just like someone walks up to you and he has got some food and the food drops on the ground, not prashad, just like you know ordinarily __ (11:55) and it’s like in the middle of a dirty street, it is not prashad, it is not even, just drops on the ground it’s all dirt, picks it up and say You going to eat it. Obviously, you are not going to eat that. Because it may be polluted. In India, most of the Cholera and Typhoid comes from the open fruit vendors who sit on the side of the road and countless flies and the insects just fly and land on it and then just you now, how the flies do it, they spit on it and they create all these horrible diseases from their saliva and so people eat that open cut fruit that has been sitting out there for long time and they get Cholera. And the Government‘s never able to control of them, they never strictly can control these open fruit sellers or have any kind of like standard for that. But, those people who buy, you know whole fruit and cut in their home, they are not, more or less people little consciences, they don’t usually come down with these type of diseases. So, just as we are so careful in eating, no we don’t just take anything, you know, normally conscious person won’t just eat any garbage. But, especially if it is impure, if it not clean or just like you don’t take any or nowadays, people don’t take, there is blood transfusion, unless they have had their blood checked for all this, AIDS or what not, to see whether it is really okay. Similarly, we have to protect our consciousness. We shouldn’t just take in any kind of rubbish in our brain. Especially, if it is dealing, it is more dangerous when it deals with spiritual things because we get a little bit of misconception about our sambandha, abhidaya, you know, prayojana, about our relationship with Krishna, how to engage in our worship or service to Krishna and what is ultimate objective of life. If we get little bit off on those things, then everything is a mess, everything is haywire. So, you know, a person, he may have some material misconception about how far it is New York to New Orleans, so that doesn’t really matter or history of America, these things are really, they don’t really relate with our eternal situation but if we get misconceptions in spiritual matters that can be very very dangerous. Because, the whole basis on which we are functioning, comes into question or comes into kind of confusion through the misconceptions. So, this happened to Mukunda Dutta, he went there, he listened and Lord Chaitanya made an example out of him. So, prabhupad had explained that he had given us all the knowledge we needed within his books. Actually, we didn’t have to go outside to study other literatures and he also gave a system that, alright, there are few other literatures that could be translated in the future. Although, wasn’t, _____ (15:19), there was no harm. ___ (15:21) he gave a system how BBT would go on doing that activity. Now, this is not just being, you know, in any way restrictive or dogmatic, it’s just very very pragmatic. It is just as we don’t eat food cooked by unclean people, we don’t want to hear things which are not spoken by someone authorized by the disciplic succession in terms of spiritual subject matters. Initially, a person may want to go and analyze who is the bonafide disciplic succession that right is any individual’s to find out who is the bonafide spiritual master who is the bonafide spiritual movement. Once they have been able to focus in or to select or to find, alright this is the bonafide disciplic succesion, this is pure spiritual knowledge, then immediately they should then stop taking other types of input into their consciousness which may create aberrations or confusions or pollutions or various ____ (16:34) and problems. This is parampara, this is authorized, this is not only just something that is promoted by Lord Chaitanya, it is also given in the Vedas. ____ (16:47). That to hear the words of a non-vaishnava is equivalent to taking milk which has been touched by the lips of the serpent. __ (17:48) hearing hari katha hearing from him even the glories ___ (17:13). The Glories of hari, not that if you just go out and someone says to you that what time is it on the street and he happens to be from another sampradaya, tell him off. Because he asked what time it is those words are going to come in. But to sit down from him and listen to hari katha and then take that being the absolute truth. That is the dangerous thing. You can be respectful to anyone but to take, we may hear spiritual knowledge, we open up our mind. Prabhupad said,” We should have our mind be like a slate and the guru should be writing on it”. Anyone who is a bonafide speaker, we actually open up our consciousness and we listen unless that warning signal come out, you know, which normally does not arise from a bonafide ___ (18:00) form a bonafide speaker, then we take that, we try to digest, we try to understand it, if there is any misunderstanding, if you don’t understand something we ask a question and then we try to again repeat that to others. But, when we are hearing something from someone who is not right from the very beginning fully authorized then naturally, there is a big danger that he may introduce some subtle or gross misconceptions which can create kind of a spiritual habit. It is just like some of these satellites they send in outer space, if one of the computers goes off or one of the sensors malfunctions, the whole thing starts to go, if one our spiritual understanding starts to become off, we start to see things in a wrong perspective that can lead us along a whole tangent which will take us away from Krishna in the long run. So these things have to be ____ (19:03). Therefore, we strictly follow the system of hearing from the proper speakers who are pure Vaishnavas, who are following into a disciplic succession, who are speaking only from sadhu, shastra and guru. We don’t want to hear people say, “Well, I think”, like sometimes they turn out stations in the radio, Well I think that what this really means is. Prabhupad said that actually a spiritual speaker does not have the volition to say I think, that means that if someone says that I think, it’s my opinion that is actually not absolute knowledge. Just like a lawyer in a court room, when he is presenting a legal point, he doesn’t say, well I think that this is, he may say but that’s not very strong, that’s not accepted in a, at least between an appeal court with the judges and that, may be it is good for the jury’s and things like that, an emotional appeal. But, in actually, a point where its points of war being discussed, the lawyer has to say that this is the law, this is the precedencies. In a similar way, our law is the Vedas and the precedencies are the lives of pure devotees and great devotees and incarnations of Godhead and so on. These two things form our reference points. Everything we do, everything we say, every understanding we have is derived from the words of the Vedas or the bonafide scriptures and those have been further brought into focus when they have been applied in the lives of certain great devotees like prahlad, dhruva or achariyas in our life. These things are very important, when we deviate from that then we get into trouble. Then we open the door to a speculation and experimentation and various other kinds of materialistic concepts which are hit and miss. As a result then, that result of that is rather not definite, you see. Actually what happened in Ayurvedic medicine, so far that I have been explained by certain Ayurvedic doctors, Kavirajas, not our Kaviraj, but Kaviraj means that is what they call the doctors who follow ayurvedic medicine, that during the Mugal period before the Mugal period by ayurvedic science, medical science, they could perform operations by Mantra. Say they find, no, this person has a defective liver ___ (22:12), Somehow, by mantra they could operate. By mantra and even by ___ (22:19) they would operate and they would perform various very technical operations with the combination of instruments and mantras. When the Mugals took over India, they banned this thing, they said it was like witch craft or something and those kavirajas had to go underground and there was such a period of about 800 years ____ (22:51) that many of these kind of subtle sciences of Ayurveda got lost, kind of parampara was by enlarge broken. So today Ayurveda is no longer know how, although it is written but no one has been able to again duplicate so far that I know. This type of surgery in other things and even many of the exact details on how to make the different medicines were lost but the books were there. So they take in the books and then what happens different type of institutions or kaviraj read the book, they try, just like you got the recipe book, you know that one person takes the recipe book and cook something does not always just come out like someone who has learnt how to cook it ____ (23:42) from his mother or something. It is little different. You can read a recipe book and ___ (23:47) 5 people can cook the same recipe, each one is different, slight, slight difference is there. So that’s what the present situation of Ayurvedic medicine is that many cases people read the recipes and do it but it is not always exactly _____ (24:04) supposed to be the same preparation chavanprash for the cold in the winter and you take that and each one tastes little different, has different effects slightly, one seems more powerful but it is all supposed to be the same menu, the same recipe. This is kind of what happens when you lose that link of how to do things when you just follow only the book then in initial stage there is a little difficulty. That way, we are very fortunate that great achariyas like Bhakti Vinod Thakur and Gaur Krishore, Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur, Srila Prabhupad, they have not only handed down and translated the scriptures into modern languages but they have also practically shown how these are to be applied, how they are to be understood.

In India, you have a certain number of learned scholars in the Vedas who don’t have faith in Vishnu or Krishna or even in the words. Now, interesting enough, this is also, I have personally seen, ____ (25:27) Christian priests, Roman Catholic priests. South America is very common who don’t believe in god as commonly is understood. They have other conceptions, they believe that liberation in a political sense and there have been debates on this thing. There are some that think that God as a father is Impersonal. There are so many people there. And, there are some of them actually are atheists but they believe in teaching like do good for their neighbors, they are like practically _____ (26:00), I don’t know what they are. There are people like that. Although they are wearing the ____ (26:09) of religious people, they have their own conceptions and ideas which they have introduced, which are not substantiated by scriptures and previous people. Not only in Hindu or the Vedic, modern Hindu religion or the Vedic cultures____ (26:28) but even other religions in the other parts of the world. So, there is also, I mean that was there in this Devananda Pandit that although, he was professor of the Bhagavat, he did not really have faith in Krishna. There is a story about that too, Ramanuja, his guru was a mayavadi and he was reading a shalok from the Bhagvatam which described Krishna having that his cheeks were just beautiful rose color like the color of lotus but when this guru read this Sanskrit verse. Sometimes, in Sanskrit there are different words that if you like in Nectar of Devotion there we some examples of that. ___ (27:15). Krishna ask Radharani, How are you? Where is your house? You know, where is your Bhasa? Bhasa means house, it means words, it means scent ___ (27:28). So many meanings are there. So, in this way she got some different meanings and there was some humorous exchange. But, sometimes in one word, you can take a word and divide it up and it have different meanings. So, he took the word, the ___ (27:50) word was there that said Krishna who has a face like a lotus and with red cheeks and that and then he divided it up and said, “Krishna has a face just like the red cheeks of the ass of certain monkey”. Ramanuja Achariya heard that as a brahmachari student and he started crying. Just to hear that he started crying and his guru says, “What are you crying for?” He said, “How can you say such a horrible thing about our lord?” And from this point, from that point Ramanuja became a vaishnava Achariya and he, you know, preached against this impersonalist philosophy but he defeated his so called guru at that point showing how it was a wrong utilization of the Sanskrit language, it meant that Krishna has lotus face and just like a ___ (28:57) lotus it was so brilliant and had you know, although he is syama color, there was reddish tinge and things like that. He defeated him but, you know, in the doing he had to hear this horrible offensive things. You get these kinds of mayavadi philosophers. I know this one contemporary mayavadi who actively preaches in India that Hare Krishna mantra is very powerful but the real power is not in the words Krishna, hare, ram, it is in the little voids that are between the name. The power is in the void. Laughter. Just between those particular words the voids are more powerful. So I mean, they get away with stuff like that, people say wow, that’s pretty far out. Because people don’t really know anymore, they are a little bit out of touch. This sounds pretty interesting, you know, it is kind of a mind blower, but anyone hear this, ____ (29:56) ridiculous. First of all this is way we chant Japa, there are no gaps anyway and this is totally ridiculous. There is nowhere in the scriptures. It is just totally, you know. But they get away with this kind of thing. They do not refer to scriptures, they just say anything. So, therefore, we strictly avoid that policy. We strictly follow this principle of following sadhu, Shastra and guru, following the previous authorities, following the scriptural and the devotional examples which are given. So, Devananda pandit, unfortunately, he was one of these so called spiritual masters who wasn’t. Although, he is preaching in the bhagavatam, of all sacred literatures but he himself wasn’t a vaishnava. Therefore, lord Chaitanya forbid us according to the scriptures, we should not hear from such people. Now, Srivas was chastised by Lord, why did you go there? But nonetheless, Lord Chaitanya was very angry at Devananda pandit. One time Lord Chaitanya was going and other side of the river doing a harinam with his devotees and he saw Devananda Pandit. He stopped the harinam and he started to chastise Devananda, that you have insulted a pure devotee. You don’t ___ (31:11), you are not the real pandit of the bahagavatam, you don’t understand the bhagavatam at all and so on. Just like, just lashed into him in public. Devananda pandit became, he became, his initial response, you know, was natural organic response, he became very angry and puffed up and he ___ (31:29) off. Then he was very fortunate, I think it was also may be gopinath achariya or it was something similar. He had a relative also. May be he was not the gopinath, like, sarvabohmiya (31:41) gopinath, I am not sure if it was the same or whether someone else. I forgot exactly who his relative was. But, maybe I forget who he was, anyway. He was fortunate to have a relative who was an associate of Lord Chaitanya and he preached to him that actually, everything Lord Chaitanya said is right and you should understand. Because he was like a relative, somehow, he had a relationship that he could introduce the matter in such a way that actually, Devananda Pandit could see by that association of the Vaishnava. As long as he was envious, he was envious against Krishna, envious against Lord Chaitanya. Even Lord Chaitanya even guard himself instructed him because of his envy he could not accept. When he got association with a pure Vaishnava. He was to some extent cured from that envy, he was preached to and he was cured from that envious outlook then he could realize that I have made a big mistake, I have offended a Vaishnava, I don’t really understand what is the bhagavatam? I haven’t really, I am lecturing on it but I am just knowing it from academic supervision. I haven’t learned it from a pure devotee and I haven’t really digested it in a proper way. So then, he searched out Lord Chaitanya or somehow he met him again, ye he met him again and this time he wanted to be forgiven by Lord Chaitanya, Lord Chaitanya refused and he had to be also forgiven by Srivas. __ (33:22) actually found out Srivas, he took pardon from Srivas and then he was forgiven by Lord Chaitanya in the ___ (33:32). Therefore, it is called vaishnav apradh, ___ (33:41). The place where you can get forgiven from a Vaishnav aparadh is in the Navadwip Dham in that area. So, thereafter, Lord Chaitanya blessed him and he became an associate of Lord Chaitanya. He actually became a qualified Lecturer in the Bhagavatam. So these things are discussed here that to understand the Gita or the Bhagavatam it is necessary to understand in the association of devotees not mental speculators, not academicians or mayavadis or anyone else. But, in the association of devotees who by listening, by applying the knowledge, by hearing it from other authorities, they come to ____ (34:28) realizing. They understand that in a realized way ___ (34:36). In conclusion, here Prabhupad says. Now, this first verse has specific significance. The words idaṁ jñānam (“this knowledge”) refer to pure devotional service, which consists of nine different activities: hearing, chanting, remembering, serving, worshiping, praying, obeying, maintaining friendship and surrendering everything. ____ (35:02) has been described as obeying, it is the position of servant is to obey the master. By the practice of these nine elements of devotional service one is elevated to spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. At the time, when one’s heart is thus cleared of material contamination, one can understand this science of Kṛṣṇa. Simply to understand that a living entity is not material is not sufficient. That may be the beginning of spiritual realization, but one should recognize the difference between activities of the body and the spiritual activities of one who understands that he is not the body. One thing is that one may, theoretically, yes I am not the body but just to say I am not the body is not enough. Next things is how to act, although we are living in a material body, how to act in spiritual activities, how to differentiate which are the activities of the body and which are the activities performed by the body which are actually spiritual activities and there is a difference. The Sanskrit word anasūyave in this verse is also very significant. Generally the commentators, even if they are highly scholarly, are all envious of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As our Devanada Pandit was admittedly at one point. Even the most erudite scholars write on Bhagavad-gītā very inaccurately. Because they are envious of Kṛṣṇa, their commentaries are useless. The commentaries given by devotees of the Lord are bona fide. No one can explain Bhagavad-gītā or give perfect knowledge of Kṛṣṇa if he is envious. One who criticizes the character of Kṛṣṇa without knowing Him is a fool. So such commentaries should be very carefully avoided. For one who understands that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the pure and transcendental Personality, these chapters will be very beneficial. Thus end the Bhakti Vedanta purport of Text number 1 Chapter 9 of Srimad Bhagavat Gita as it is. In the chapter entitles ‘The Most Confidential Knowledge’. Hare Krishna

Are there any questions? Audience: Sometimes we find amongst Vaisnavas in ___ (37:49) Gaudiya Line differences of opinion ____ (37:53) according to time and circumstance so in our parampara devotees need to know very clearly how to establish the line of authority JPS: Yes, so prabhupad was very emphatic and the point that Lord Chaitanya had predicted or had explained, that kail kali dharma naama sankirtan, krishna kripa bine nahi __ (33:25). In the age of kali, the yuga dharma is chanting the holy name of Krishna, is spreading the harinam sankirtan and establishing that and spreading that all over the world is not a material achievement but it is a symptom that the person is empowered by Krishna. Lord Chaitanya clearly says, “krishna kripa bine nahi ___ (39:01) that without the mercy of Krishna it is not possible to spread Krishna consciousness. So that in terms of our present day, when you have all other things being equal, in terms of, well same sampradaya, same basic, you know, gaudiya vaishnav, like that. Then one person is saying this is the proper realization and other person may say different application who is right? The person that established this Krishna consciousness all over the world that person obviously, should be recognized, having received the mercy of Krishna. Disregard every sober minded person accepted that His Divine Grace Abhay Charanaravinda Bhakti Vedanta Swami Prabhupad had undoubtedly received the mercy, the complete mercy of the previous achariyas of Lord Chaitanya, Krishna and therefore, because he had the mercy, it is not material, that is a spiritual asset, spiritual qualification. Therefore, that signifies that others should give up their petty differences and actually fall in line with Srila Prabhupad’s vision which is proven. Just like 2 doctors, 1 doctor says real disease is this, another doctor says disease is there. One doctor puts his cure first, it does not do anything, the other doctor gives his medicine it is cured. __ (40:52) which doctor is right, the one that cured the patient is obviously right so what is dharma? Dharma is the medicine to cure the disease ____ (41:05) existed in the world and in this age the disease is of kali-yuga, the cure is spreading the harinam sankirtan but that has to be applied according to kala desa patra. When we have 2 doctors and one doctor is saying well this I understood it from my spiritual master, this is how it has come down, this is how you do it and he does not and it works and people are made into devotees all over the world and they are fixed up in Krishna Consciousness, that is a very, this is the absolute truth that in fact, his realization of the practical application of the philosophy is in fact, the correct one and the others who have not been able to achieve any success with their ideas, they should ___ (42:00) rather than just stubbornly stick to their position, in spite of not being able to make any progress. This is actually in terms of, spiritually in terms of spiritually there is a difference in ambition which is the proper kala desa patra and even within ISKCON prabhupad established, alright the two Vaishnavs they may be both vaishnavas but as preachers if one is able to expand book distribution or expand the preaching or do something well then others would want to know how they do it, how they do it. He has got some realization and that way we find that someone was successful, the other devotees would go to visit ___ (42:44), hear from them and try to learn. That’s is the Vaishnav way of realizing kala desa patra applications. But, when the person got other desires, trying to remain in some kind of exclusive situation or whatever, then, may be some other motives which may have or just stubbornness or something. They don’t want to take advantage or actually follow the successful formulas, then actually they remain alienated from what has become the main stream of Lord Chaitanya’s movement. Does not mean they are not Vaisnavs. Unfortunately, they are not following the approved formulas. Anything add to that Maharaj, pretty deep subject.___ (43:48) Audience: Generally in the scriptures, especially in the Bhagvatam ___ (43:59) that as far as the actual Siddhanta they actually don’t disagree, in other words, even within the realm of Vaishnav activities there is room for disagreement but ultimately if the siddhanta is agreed upon there is no real disagreements. JPS: Example of that, Audience: That in the First canto, Chapter 3, it mentions that, I think it is actually a part that Jiva Goswami mentions that this is just illusion. At the end of every Kalpa and according to baladev ___ (44:36) he mentions that sometimes there is a disagreement, there isn’t necessary a disillusion at the end of every Kalpa. So, Prabhupad doesn’t even give his opinion about that he just mentions ___ (44:48) opinions. So, this is on different point ____ (44:54). Obviously those two Vaishnavs don’t disagree that Krishna is a supreme personality of Godhead but as far as when someone disagrees with his spiritual master then according to prabhupad of course, in the Chaitanya Charit-Amrita that if one disagrees from, deviates from disciplic succession then he becomes ____ (45:16) useless. Whatever he is saying, ultimately doesn’t have any affect anyhow. In other words, that the potency of this, that if one of we actually have no potency in our selves but if we were fixed in the order of our spiritual master and meditating on it and actually executing it, then by the meditation upon the orders of the spiritual master then we derive the potency of the disciplic succession. It is said in the verse ___ (45:48). That the spiritual masters light, the spiritual master’s order has to be taken as one’s life ____ (46.01). Because one is meditating upon the order of spiritual master and is actually fixed in his mind, the actual spiritual master himself, that actually through by that the whole disciplic succession including the supreme personality of godhead is actually present. And when the supreme lord and his representatives are present, one is actually able to perform devotional service in such a way that there is some result. _____ (46:28) came back through a long pilgrimage, maharaja Yudhistir nearly praised, praised him ____ (46:37). He prays that you actually become a holy place of pilgrimage because you are carrying Supreme Personality of Godhead within your heart, that ____ (46:58) as 1/10000th size of tip of the hair in size as super souls we have no potencies, practically speaking without the mercy of Spiritual master and Krishna, without the disciplic succession and Krishna we have no potency but within _____ (47:14) we have so much potency to fulfil the desires of spiritual master and Krishna. So one has to really see what the orders of the previous Acharya was and one who is actually fulfilling them, then we actually know that the spiritual master and Krishna are personally present. And who is not ___ (47:31), we can understand Krishna and spiritual master aren’t present something else is present. JPS: Sometimes, in those commentaries one commentator is separate from another by 100, 200, 500 even 1000 years. And, so, in one topic a person may say, well, someone ___ (47:58), what are the _____ (48:00). Then 100 years later someone says well, such and such time it appears that from the scripture, this and this happened. Then the person says well, ____ (48:17) there may be an exception that sometime ____ (48:22). So in a sense, there are not really contradicting but what it is doing is, one person may be giving an explanation which is genuine and broad without, just like we say modes are impure in the scriptures but then it also says that conch is pure so that’s bone. So it is like sometimes in the Vedas some exceptions so everything ___ (48:50) put it all in one place that, just like that example ____ (48:58) change then _____ (49:01). There might be a one _____ (49:03) some extraordinary reason which the subsequent achariya knew had evidence from Vedas. So really, in reality it is not contradicting. He is not really saying that there is not a, there is not ____ (49:20) after every Kalpa, after every ___ (49:21) but in one sense he is admitting of it, there is a ___(49:29) of that time but sometimes there is such and this is that. ____ (49:35) in the Vedas say that this particular ____ (49:38) this situation, there was not a ___ (49:41). So that way they actually are continuing to respect because one subsequent achariya cannot disrespect the previous achariya. But sometimes, on a kind of a, it’s like, as it comes down you sometimes get finer and finer details that come out give a deeper, they don’t actually ___ (50:03) the previous but what they are doing is just. It is just like you have the constitution in America and they make amendments which actually don’t change necessarily. Sometimes, they don’t for like say the Supreme Court makes the ruling on those, they are not actually changing what is the law but they are just giving an inside into how it is applied or something like that. So, just like that the previous achariya gives some instruction and the subsequent achariya, he may be facing certain question or certain doubt that is arisen because there is something said in another part of the Vedas and then he brings that into focus that how this is to be understood and that is to be understood. So you _______ (50:51) contradiction but actually it is for the refinement of the understanding rather than actually having a really ___ (51:05) disagreement. Atleast ___ (51:10) the achariyas like that you don’t find that type of direct, any kind of disagreement. In fact, when Ballabha Achariya wanted to disagree with Sridhar Swami, then Lord Chaitanya accused him of being unfaithful _____ (51:28) to the original commentator. Even the subsequent commentator may have realized some aspects of Bhagavatam in greater depths, they don’t disrespect or ____ (51:41) contradict keeping respect with the original commentator, then they show how in this particular area it can be seen even in a greater depth. It is just like someone may be looking 30 power microscopic blood and he sees these things and someone else has a 100 power microscope and looks that they have even a greater kind of in depth. So it is not actually contradictory, it is just the question of how one layer of depth they are looking. So you find some of these achariyas like Vishvanath Chakravarti Thakur when he looked at things sometimes it was nearly with like a high power microscope type of vision and he would find out very specific points which in reality don’t contradict the previous but they give a more deeper refinement of the understanding because also expressed ____ (52:36) way. This is the way prabhupad explained that amongst the previous achariyas like that there is no basic disagreement. So, I think it is time get ready for taking rest, our service tomorrow. We take rest because we are not sleep lovers but because the body needs to be rested and mind need to rest ___ (53:05) so then we can again serve for tomorrow.

Kunal Monga 16/3/2016